The only thread that didn't matter.

God bless you, Evan. 

BTW........... that's a French flag. 

bait 

BTW........... that's a French flag.

Good one, soup! 

The only Confederate flag that mattered [FIXED]




Well, just kidding...every Rebel battle-flag mattered a whole lot.

You know, Evan...I thought you were against terrorism, treason and tyranny. Was I mistaken? 

You know, Evan...I thought you were against terrorism, treason and tyranny. Was I mistaken?

I'm also against fighting wars for the right to own people as property. 

I'm also against fighting wars for the right to own people as property.


It is apparent you are also against historical fact. The war was not fought for slavery. But I'm sure you knew that already. 

It is apparent you are also against historical fact. The war was not fought for slavery. But I'm sure you knew that already.

Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. 

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause."

-Abraham Lincoln 

without freeing any slave I would do i

you are taking it out of context...read the whole statement...which includes..."What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union" 

How is that out of context? It's not at all. He said, in his very own words that he pretty much couldn't care any less about slavery unless he could use it as a pawn to win the war.

Then there's this little gem which gets straight to what the war was REALLY about:

“Any people, anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right, a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world.”

Abraham Lincoln – U.S. Congress, 1847


A little over 10 years later after the South attempted precisely that, Lincoln, when asked, “Why not let the South go in peace”? replied; “I can’t let them go. Who would pay for the government”? “And, what then will become of my tariff”?

-Abraham Lincoln to Virginia Compromise Delegation March 1861 

The south was right. Deo Vindice


 

Lynch, do you ever post on KU without antagonizing someone?

You might want to consider it. Just for a change of pace. 

couldn't care any less

Defcon, right now you are my grammatical hero because you are one of very few people who actually use this phrase correctly! I sometimes wonder if the "I could care less" crowd really understand what they're saying ;) 

:D I sure try.

One thing that bothers me is that people never separate "a lot."

"Alot" isn't a word! 

"Alot" isn't a word!


It used to be!

(Probably before you were born, MX!) 

I try not to act like a member of the grammar police, but some things just drive me bonkers. My daughter said a big thing the kids say around here that bugs her is "now and days". What does that even mean? 

Our new Government

What new government? Are you one of those clowns that think the current US government was only formed post reconstruction? 

He said, in his very own words that he pretty much couldn't care any less about slavery unless he could use it as a pawn to win the war.

that's not what he said...he was saying that the nation came first...and his fight against slavery was "because I believe it helps to save the Union" 

Now you're just being silly.

He clearly said that if he could "save the union" without freeing a single slave that he would...which shows beyond any doubt that the war was not for slavery.

The south could have kept their slaves and rejoined the union.

Regardless of all that mess he also said to the Virginia compromise delegation that he couldn't let the south secede because of lost federal income. 

The WAR was fought for States Rights NOT slavery. 

that's not what he said...he was saying that the nation came first...and his fight against slavery was "because I believe it helps to save the Union"

You don't know what you're talking about (again). 

Someone here serioulsy does NOT know their history. 

Defcon - we did this before, but when Lincoln wrote to Horace Greely -

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause."

There already was a draft of the Emancipation Proclamation in his desk drawer.

also - you left off the last line of the letter, which was :

"I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free." 

Someone REALLY is ignorant of history. If you think I'm talking about you, I probably am. 

The war was about money and power. And that's the end of that little story. 

The WAR was fought for States Rights NOT slavery.

that's what the south said...but slavery was one of the reasons...the southern states wanted the right to own slaves

You don't know what you're talking about (again).

sorry...but edgar po wrong 

The WAR was fought for States Rights NOT slavery.


Said the south. State's rights to hold other human beings in bondage and servitude. The War of Southern Aggression against color.

 

OMFG. Lynch and I are on the same page. Now that's scary. 

You believe absolute nonsense regarding the war regardless of facts...THAT'S scary.

You choose to ignore Lincoln's own words in regards to pursuing war over tariffs and federal income.

WatchOut...the south was right. 

The slavery issue was more about the economic impact of slavery on the cost of labor on the large plantations. Its not that sountherners got up one morning and decided to enslave black people for no good reason. Therefore, the treat to slavery was a threat to the labor market and thus competitivness of the cost of plantation goods, thus the livlihood and way of life of the southern plantation owner. The states rights issue was about the right of each state to determine itself to be a slave state/ 

Evan, bored? This thread is only meant to stir the pot. I thought that was an iceable offense. 

WatchOut...the south was right.


So you think we should still be able to hold other humans in bondage and servitude. Right-e-o then.


The slavery issue was more about the economic impact of slavery on the cost of labor on the large plantations. Its not that sountherners got up one morning and decided to enslave black people for no good reason. Therefore, the treat to slavery was a threat to the labor market and thus competitivness of the cost of plantation goods, thus the livlihood and way of life of the southern plantation owner. The states rights issue was about the right of each state to determine itself to be a slave state/


In other words it was OK for them to want slaves because that way they could make more money. I see.

I don't give a crap how you word it. We got the same bottem line. 

In other words it was OK for them to want slaves because that way they could make more money. I see.


Ahhh no, thats not what I said. I said the issue of slavery wasn't about race so much as economics. What part of that did you not understand? 

So you think we should still be able to hold other humans in bondage and servitude. Right-e-o then.


Nope. I never said anything even close to that.

What I did say, which I guess you're not comprehending, was that the war, per Lincoln's own words, was not about slavery. 

sorry...but edgar po wrong

Nope, JohnStench. 

Lincoln mainly freed the slaves to aid the Union war effort. Just as the British offered freedom to Colonial slaves to fight for the crown and the British figured the former slaves would offer up information on their former masters' war effort. 

"Someone REALLY is ignorant of history. If you think I'm talking about you, I probably am."

No one cares what you think about history JAMS.