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Pastor Wants Presidents' Names Removed From Washington, Jackson Parks Over Ties To Slavery

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wayward1 1
jackass 1
kingwood resident 5
Let Logic Prevail 2
It is I WhyWhyWhy 1
Puss In Boots 1
Dorothy Parker 1
SagaciousSighFiGurl 1
TinktheSprite 1
BuiltinTX70 2
sdanielmcev 4
Four Pinocchios 1
Emperor of Kingwood 3
DVaz 1
AMDG 4
them 1
dkeller 2
tinnman 2

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them --- 4 years ago -


Pastor Wants Presidents? Names Removed From Washington, Jackson Parks Over Ties To Slavery


August 16, 2017 10:13 AM

CHICAGO (CBS) ? A Chicago pastor has asked the Emanuel administration to remove the names of two presidents who owned slaves from parks on the South Side, saying the city should not honor slave owners in black communities.

A bronze statue of George Washington on horseback stands at the corner of 51st and King Drive, at the northwest entrance to Washington Park.

Bishop James Dukes, pastor of Liberation Christian Center, said he wants the statue gone, and he wants George Washington?s name removed from the park.

?When I see that, I see a person who fought for the liberties, and I see people that fought for the justice and freedom of white America, because at that moment, we were still chattel slavery, and was three-fifths of humans,? he said. ?Some people out here ask me, say ?Well, you know, he taught his slaves to read.? That?s almost sad; the equivalent of someone who kidnaps you, that you gave them something to eat.?

Dukes said, even though Washington was the nation?s first president and led the American army in the Revolutionary War, he?s no hero to the black community.

?There?s no way plausible that we would even think that they would erect a Malcolm X statue in Mount Greenwood, Lincoln Park, or any of that. Not that say Malcolm X was a bad guy; they just would not go for it,? he said. ?Native Americans would not even think about putting up a Custer statue, because of the atrocities that he plagued upon Native Americans. And for them to say to us ?just accept it? is actually insulting.?

The pastor also said President Andrew Jackson?s name should be removed from nearby Jackson Park, because he also was a slave owner. He said he?s not necessarily asking the city rename the parks altogether. He suggested Washington Park could be named after former Mayor Harold Washington, and Jackson Park could be named after civil rights leader Rev. Jesse Jackson or singer Michael Jackson.

Dukes said he?s not trying to erase history. He said black people should be able to decide who is and is not honored in their communities.

?I think we should be able to identify and decide who we declare heroes in or communities, because we have to tell the stories to our children of who these persons are,? he said.

He said parks, statues, or other monuments honoring Presidents Washington and Jackson might be appropriate elsewhere, but not in black neighborhoods.

?In an African-American community, it?s a slap in the face and it?s a disgrace for them to honor someone who was a slave owner.

Dukes said he has sent letters to Mayor Rahm Emanuel and the Chicago Park District asking them to change the names of Washington and Jackson parks. He shared the letter on Facebook.

?I am feeling ambivalent that I would have to walk my child, attend a parade or enjoy a game of softball in a park that commemorates the memory of a slave owner,? he wrote. ?Therefore, I call on the immediate removal of President George Washington and President Andrew Jackson names from the parks located on the southeast side of Chicago. They should not have the distinct honor of being held as heroes when they actively participated in the slave trade.?

Representatives for the mayor did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

A Chicago Park District spokeswoman pointed to the city?s formal process for renaming parks, which allows anyone to submit a request to the superintendent. The Park District board may vote on any such request after a 45-day public comment period. 

TinktheSprite --- 4 years ago -

This is a little off topic but something I've learned recently about the history of slavery from a good friend from Nigeria, Africa. I enjoy listening to her stories about her culture and how she grew up. She is a hard worker, a US Citizen who holds a professional degree. She was raised Catholic and sees all the flaws and conspiracy that lie within her old country.

While it is wrong to sell humans by modern standards, it still goes on even to this day in many countries even in the US. But the story of Slavery started in Africa. Back when White men started kidnapping Africans to what became the start of the Slave Trade, the Africans got into the money making deal themselves, selling Africans to these White men. Who were these Africans whom were sold? Mostly prisoners, homeless, runaways, strays, criminals, and trouble makers. The African Nations were trying to rid themselves of their bad blood. Again, not to say if it was right or wrong, just that is how it happened in history. The children born into Slavery simply because of who their mother was is also another story.

Among Blacks in our Nation there is a prejudice among themselves. African's to not consider African Americans as "African Americans" but rather "Black Americans" and they are looked down upon by Africans because of their slave ancestry connection to the unwanted in their country. Black American's have a hateful disdain for Africans who come to the US because they feel their ancestors paved the road for them to just simply come to the US with little trouble.

That's all I have to say on that.

Slavery in another more discreet form and Human Trafficking is alive and well today. I feel there will be no one honored or statues, or presidents names erected anywhere because of Modern Human Trafficking. 

dkeller --- 4 years ago -

This will be like affirmative action programs. There will be no clear line of when to stop and everyone will disagree depending on what perspective they have.

Maybe Americans should vote on an end date :) and after than no more name changing and no more monuments taken down.

Who knows; we as a nation probably couldn't agree on the date either. 

dkeller --- 4 years ago -

oh...interesting post, Tink. 

sdanielmcev --- 4 years ago -

Ancient Greeks, Romans, Chinese, Arabs, Persians, Africans, Native Americans,etc on to infinity all owned slaves. There goes history class. 

Emperor of Kingwood --- 4 years ago -

While we are at it, lets remove the pyramids. After all they were built with slave labor. 

Four Pinocchios --- 4 years ago -

dkeller --- 14 hours ago - quote - hide comments
oh...interesting post, Tink.


You actually read it?

I read the book "The History of Apple Cider Vinegar" yet couldn't get through the first paragraph of that boring history lecture... 

wayward1 --- 4 years ago -

We don't build a lot of statues to honor American generals. Those Confederate statues are honoring the cause more than anything.

That cause doesn't need the honor anymore. Let's replace them all with WW1 and WW2 generals if we want to preserve American history. Replace Stonewall with George Marshall. Done. I'm happy. 

SagaciousSighFiGurl (Mod) --- 4 years ago -

I think there is a difference between acknowledging our past and honoring every event in our past. Not everything humans do, especially in wars and battles and in times of strife, is honorable. But all of it adds up to a whole. No one in their right mind NOW thinks slavery is a good thing. But as Tink pointed out, we are STILL trafficking young girls and women into slavery. 

BuiltinTX70 --- 4 years ago -

Ain't happening.

It's like suing someone. You can sue for anything......just like you can complain about anything.

We aren't losing our 1st or 2nd Amendment Rights, and we aren't removing the names of our founding forefathers.......... 

jackass --- 4 years ago -

0 

AMDG --- 4 years ago -

I think there is a difference between acknowledging our past and honoring every event in our past. Not everything humans do, especially in wars and battles and in times of strife, is honorable. But all of it adds up to a whole. No one in their right mind NOW thinks slavery is a good thing. But as Tink pointed out, we are STILL trafficking young girls and women into slavery.

looks like you and Condolezza Rice are on the same page

I?m a firm believer keep your history before you. So I don?t actually want to rename things that were named for slave owners. I want us to look at the names and recognize what they did and be able to tell our kids what they did and for them to have a sense of their own history. When you start wiping out history, sanitizing history to make you feel better, it?s a bad thing. But let me say one thing about our constitution, that constitution originally counted my answers as 3/5 of a man. In 1952 my father had trouble registering to vote in Birmingham, Alabama. In 2005, I stood in the Ben Franklin room, one of our founders, I took an oath of office to the same constitution, and it was administered by Jewish woman Supreme Court justice. That is the story of America. The long road to freedom has indeed been long. It has sometimes been violent. It had many martyrs but ultimately has been Americans claiming those institutions for themselves and expanding the definition of ?We the People.?  

tinnman --- 4 years ago -

Better knock down that pesky Great Wall while we are at it.

Examples of slavery have been established going back as far as 750 ad in Ghana and all parts of Africa. It has been postulated that slavery actually originated in Africa. Makes sense since Northern Africa is considered the cradle of civilization.

All of the great civilizations in history have utilized slave labor as a normal part of their society. Notice I said "normal" and "their society". Slavery was a normal part of life in the South and should be viewed as such.

Slavery is a sick practice, but, it exists in many forms today. SiFi has listed the most vile forms being used today.

It doesn't bother me that Blacks want monuments honoring Civil War heroes taken down. I was born and raised in Texas and have no emotional connection to the slavery issue or to Southern Culture. Texas stands on it's own and is not that invested in the same southern culture as say, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia and the Carolinas.

Having said that, what does bother me is the double standard when it comes to Blacks and their issues.

Why is it ok to take down a statue of Washington and remove his name from the park and replace it with the name of a Black hero? And why is it that the Blacks can have a "community" but if a white person comes out and says that they want the statues to stay because they are in a white community, there would be a race riot? The statues in W. Virginia are a good example.

The double standards and the lip service paid to those standards are what makes most white Americans upset. It's not a loss of culture, it's a double standard that is fed by white angst.

Nothing can be done about our slavery past and I certainly do not think I owe anyone an apology for it. However, when examples like the one listed in the OP are put forward, it makes me think I have to go along with this in order to make up for something that I, or my family, had nothing to do with. Again, it isn't the statue I'm mad about, it's the double standard. 

AMDG --- 4 years ago -

My cut for what it is worth is pesonally I could not agree with Condy rice more. IMO it sums it up very well.

My problem is, not matter what I think is right or not may not matter all that much. The issue is, if a statue is offensive, to a large group and they go through the system to have it removed, that is just our process at work - even if we disagree with it, we should respect the process and if we disagree try to change or stop it that way.

Also, not sure i have the correct frame of reference to evaluate or discount how others may feel about these symbols. 

Emperor of Kingwood --- 4 years ago -

we are STILL trafficking young girls and women into slavery.

Criminals do that, not "we". It is illegal and has been for a long time. Slavery at one time was legal. 

Let Logic Prevail --- 4 years ago -

Dan Rather wrote:

The Party of Lincoln has become the Party of Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee. To borrow a phrase from the President's own limited eloquence - Sad!
In another Twitter rant this morning, Mr. Trump has tripled down, quadrupled down (haven't we lost count by now) on his morally bankrupt false equivalence between not only Nazis, anti-Semites, other racists, and the counter-protesters. But he's now equating the greatest band of traitors in American history with our Founding Fathers.
No Robert E. Lee and George Washington are not in the same category. Go to Mt. Vernon and you will learn about a heroic but tragically flawed man who could not escape the deep prejudices of his time even as he wrestled with their moral injustices. Head to the monuments of the Confederacy and you will see only the exultations of those who sought to tear the United States asunder so they could keep in place a cruel bondage of their fellow human beings.
This could be a time for a reckoning with our history, but it seems that the only history Mr. Trump is interested in is revisionist sloganeering.
The United States abolished slavery, but at a great and bloody cost. We abolished legal segregation, also at great cost. I covered Klan rallies in the 1960s, and I have seen that hatred up close. It made my blood run cold, as a privileged, white Christian male. I could not imagine the terror it would strike in the peoples for which it was intended.
Even before this recent descent into Nazi and Klan rallies of heavily armed bigots, we had a long way to go on racial justice. Now it seems we are in danger of more bloodshed and open conflict. I have no doubt that the forces of good will win out, but at what cost?
The demons from our past have never been put to rest, but their destiny is for the trash heap of history. And all decent Americans should not only say that but act accordingly. The time for cheap words is over. The question is will Americans realize that a quick Twitter post won't do. Will theyh stand up? Will they speak openly and honestly? Will they name names? We have a President openly waving the banner of The Lost Cause.
Many have died for the cause for justice. And so I end here with a quote from Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address. These were words that Republicans used to stand by and I hope they do again. Mr. Lincoln's sentiments do not seem dated, but tragically of our moment:
"It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth." 

AMDG --- 4 years ago -

Always view it as unfair to judge peoples actions out of context with their time.

Being an old guy, i can vividly remember the segregated south. It was as objectively wrong then, as it would be now, but judged in context of the period many of the people who lived it every day were not willfully bad. It was the world they knew and grew up in, were conditioned in.

I knew many of these men and women - judged in today's context, i would view them very poorly. But they were not bad people, they were good people living in a bad time.

Today's bigots however do not get that caveat - they live in the here and now. And should be held accountable for these heinous beliefs.

And the both sides of this issue do not share equal immorality. The side opposing bigotry, even if their tactics are no better have moral superiority over the bigoted. 

Let Logic Prevail --- 4 years ago -

oh...interesting post, Tink.?



If only it were factual. Then again, not a GOP trait. 

tinnman --- 4 years ago -

If only it were factual. Then again, not a GOP trait.

How do you know it's not factual? Tink started off by saying that her info was anectdotal and not research based.

Calling it not factual is like me listening to you tell a story and then tell you that it's not true.

How the heck do we know?

So, if it's not factual, then please, show me the data that proves that.

If not, then remember what your parents told you. If you can't say something nice...shut your yapper.... 

Emperor of Kingwood --- 4 years ago -

And should be held accountable for these heinous beliefs.

You hold someone accountable for actions, not beliefs. 

sdanielmcev --- 4 years ago -

Dan Rather is an embarrassment to an already embarrassing press. It's why he was fired. 

AMDG --- 4 years ago -

You hold someone accountable for actions, not beliefs.

How would one know anyone's beliefs without some action?

How many times can we split this hair ? 

DVaz --- 4 years ago -

Today's bigots however do not get that caveat - they live in the here and now. And should be held accountable for these heinous beliefs.

What do you mean by "accountable?" You want the government policing thoughts now? 

Dorothy Parker --- 4 years ago -

Why would anyone want to defend white supremacists? If you really need to ask why white people can't have their own "white's only" club and consider it a double standard when the black community wants equality, you might be a racist.

Let's be real...this country has always celebrated the white man and everyone else comes second to that. If you think otherwise, you're lying to yourself. 

BuiltinTX70 --- 4 years ago -

I've never understood when one person says something dumb, and this is a dumb statement by the pastor, that it gets translated to every liberal or left wing person.

Some people are always going to hop on the train when given the chance....... 

sdanielmcev --- 4 years ago -

Why would anyone want to defend white supremacists? I

Who's defending white supremacists? 

kingwood resident --- 4 years ago -

This pastor needs to be removed as pastor of the church, he espouses hate!!! 

kingwood resident --- 4 years ago -

This pastor needs to be removed as pastor of the church, he espouses hate!!! 

kingwood resident --- 4 years ago -

This pastor needs to be removed as pastor of the church, he espouses hate!!! 

kingwood resident --- 4 years ago -

This pastor needs to be removed as pastor of the church, he espouses hate!!! 

kingwood resident --- 4 years ago -

This pastor needs to be removed as pastor of the church, he espouses hate!!! 

Puss In Boots --- 4 years ago -

sdanielmcev --- 2 days ago - quote - hide comments
Dan Rather is an embarrassment to an already embarrassing press. It's why he was fired.


Granted he messed up on his last story. But get your facts straight. He wasn't fired. Facts matter. And I would point out he was an award winning journalist for 46 years. Quite the career. 

It is I WhyWhyWhy --- 4 years ago -

He wasn't fired. Facts matter.


"messed up"

Get real, you can call it whatever you want but he was forced to resign from CBS because of his intentional slander and false report on Bush. He left in a cloud of shame.

Rather spent decades making biased reports that went unchecked because almost 100% of the news was biased during his career. His reporting was even the main reason a fellow lifelong democrat who worked with him but actually had a conscious wrote the book BIASED. Rather is rather pathetic and so was his career. 

sdanielmcev --- 4 years ago -

Facts matter

Yes, they do. You should try it some time. 

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